'We are making real progress'

“Thanks MiM, but not sure I can reproduce your data. Here's what the OECD have to say on Government deficit:

http://tinyurl.com/aq4cfpn

Although the UK is certainly on the high side on the size of its 2012 deficit (though not as extreme as Japan or the USA), it is smaller than is the case in Ireland, Spain and Greece.

I would guess that the big upturn in UK deficit in 2009 reflects the strong dependency this country has on financial services, as the financial crisis would hit both GDP and the tax revenue available to the Government for expenditure: a more extreme version of the same phenomenon is apparent in Iceland's figures in 2008, for example. Not a healthy situation, I agree, but not one that can be attributed to any particular political party since all have played a role in shaping our current business balance.”

“FormerlyW thank you for that post it was very interesting, but one thing that doesn't add up is how the UK had the biggest deficit in the western world, bigger than Ireland, Italy, Portugal, Spain and Greece!

This suggests I was wrong to focus on borrowing instead of how much was spent and whether it was sustainable or not. I am aware of the Keynesian philosophy of running a loss in the good times, and I am not anyone to suggest this is wrong, but there appears to be a dependency on such funds that make economic downturns more acute.”

“by roland Sunday, January 06 2013, 5:34PM

"Whatever."

LOL. Suffering from microorchidism, roland? You only rate a 7 on the Bristol scale in my book.

No solidity whatsoever.”

“"The amount of interest the UK was paying on its huge debts made cutting the deficit a necessity. Cuts are painful of course but the cuts are a result of inadequate Labour governments." --- MeatisMurder

Why this overwhelming urge to grossly oversimplify reality into a goodies-versus-baddies caricature?

Here's a plot of national debt over the last 60 years, colour coded by who is in power: http://tinyurl.com/a3wz25d
(somewhat confusingly blue for Labour and red for Conservative!). Notice how the Conservatives were running the debt up steadily in the early 1990s? And how the Labour government then paid that debt down until the early part of this decade, then, indeed, allowed it to climb back, but actually only to the level that they inherited in the first place? And how when the Conservatives came to power there was no indication of any major change?

And here's the same plot for the USA:
http://tinyurl.com/2upskj4
Notice how similar its shape is to that of the UK, despite the completely different mixes of political power over time?

So, no, the mess we are in is not the fault of the Labour Government any more than the successes of the early part of their administration was due to their brilliance. Politicians have remarkably little control over what is happening in this country, which is driven by much larger events in a complex non-linear system, and anyone tells you otherwise is either a fool or a politicians. Or both.”

“Sorry Dave, I just don't see it. Your lot are almost as bad as the previous bunch. If being slightly less disastrous than the previous Labour Governments is 'real progress' then I suggest you have set the bar way too low.”

“Whatever.”

“The amount of interest the UK was paying on its huge debts made cutting the deficit a necessity. Cuts are painful of course but the cuts are a result of inadequate Labour governments. For the time being my trust lies with Cameron.

Let me make a point about the 50p tax rate; Gordon Brown introduced this in 2007, which brings up the question why it took Labour 8 years to raise it. The skeptic in me suggests this is because Brown knew he wasn't going to get elected, and he knew the Conservatives would lower it because it is a self-defeating tax, and thus a backlash was inevitable. That's politics for you I suppose, but nonetheless Cameron is giving reasons to vote him in next term, rather than Miliband who is doing nothing but make opportunistic comments.”

“ah roland, you have emerged from under your rock again?

'Oh, how I lauged [sic] at the humour of Slick and how vox laps it all up as if it were true.'

I don't have a problem believing posters such as Slickspoons and yourself are total jokers.”

“Vox says of Slick """It's actually quite embarrasing [sic] for me having to spank you in public like this".

Whats really embarrassing Vox is watching Slick ridicule you in public.

Oh, how I lauged at the humour of Slick and how vox laps it all up as if it were true.”

“"It's actually quite embarrasing for me having to spank you in public like this, so I'll save you any further shame and ridicule and leave it at that." by voxpopuli.

That has to be a contender for comment of the week! It certainly gets my vote voxpopuli.”