“I said on Friday "I think Judge Devas has not been truthfull in what he said..I hope the prosectutor will appeal. However the other extreme is seen in Brixton..six months in a University of Crime for £3.50 of water! I just want justice to be justice, that means no silly excuses, no extreme sentances and in time some faith in justice." The debate below seems to have been more interested in other issues.

I have heard, since, a range of comments by those including Magistrates and. They assure me that Magistrates and Judges are not swayed by Politicians' opinions. We have a wide range of sentances for similar crimes- ranging from Police advice to lengthly gaol terms for similar offences.

How can people have confidence in such a system with such different outcomes?”

“neilant - Thank you for your kind words.”

“Told to get a life...............the judge wants to drop dead so some new blood can sit in his chair and do the job properly!”

“J_Orange.. You,ve made lots of valid & true points there, thanks for that.. Its refreshing to read someone stating exactly how it is(& has been), without the usual political bias....

All our Governments & Big Business of the last 32 years have made our society far worse for the poorest 50% (give or take a few %), than it ever needed to be.... Just because of their (& their supporters/friends/partners in crime) insatiable urge for more Wealth.. Which in turn equals more Power.. Equals even more Wealth..

They call it the " Free Market " system dont they?.. It may be " Free" for them, but quite a high price has been paid by a lot of its weaker or more vulnerable citizens.. Not just a financial price either....

But thats of no concern to any of those who are riding nicely on their particular "wealth &/or power" bandwagon....”

“LestaLM - The large influx of economic migrants over the past fifteen years are a result of demands by the CBI for cheap labour. Big business said 'jump' and Labour said 'how high?'
This has driven down wages for the already low paid, it's deprived other nations of skilled workers, it's split up families (does anyone really want to leave their home, their culture, their family and move across Europe to share a room with three others in order to send a few quid home at the end of the week?) and it's divided workers who should be united.
There should be no incentive for economic migration between EU members, as a true European Union would ensure equal opportunities and life styles across all member nations. But with the rules as they are, I cannot blame individuals who're prepared to sacrifice a lot in order to provide a bit more for their families back home. I don't remember many people objecting when hoardes of British workers went to Germany and the Netherlands in the 1980s, with a swift auf weidersehen m'duck.
Manual labourers entering the UK isn't good for anyone in the long term. We've all heard of qualified doctors working as plumbers, eastern Europe needs doctors, why should they come here to tart up expensive houses in North London? It's not good for them, their medical careers or the wages of local plumbers who've got greater expenses and can't take a real cut in wages to compete.
But it's not like multi-millionaires avoiding tax. They can afford to pay. They're not shacked up four to a room. It's not a matter of supporting their families, keeping them in basics, it's a matter of an extra Ferrari or a new yacht. Neither stuation is ideal but, as always, look who benefits and never blame the little people.”

“Do people that, rightly, object to the rich moving money out of the the UK and not spending/re-investing it here also object to non-UK citizens working here, living as cheaply as possible, sending their earnings out of the UK and ,thus, putting very little back into the economy that they are benefitting from ?”

“Lestal.M.... "Doesnt that create jobs?".... YES, all that would definitely....

BUT, it could still be done comfortably on half the salaries that all the greedy take.. Or a third, 2 thirds, a quarter, 3 qtrs.. Whatever......... A lot less than they all take. & Take & Take...... Never satisfied.... Obsessive obscene greed..

The fame & celebrity, much wants more, extreme capitalist & corporate controlled, Im alright Jack, **** you, greed culture....

Over 30 years of continuous damage to our society, which we are suffering for now, & will continue to do so..”

“The last paragraph of my previous post should've read...
In your (stumay's) later post, you state; "Peter Stringfellow - another entrepeneuir who left school with no qualifications but actually realised hbis future was in his hands". I've never heard him describe it as his "future" before but it is probably fair to say he couldn't SEE past his cock."

Congratulations on the award of your Political Science degree stumay. Did Mickey certify it all by himself or did Pluto and Goofy help out?”

“Cavestar and Mr Oange - Well done - what a reasoned deabte - I can't put down your views so will resort to asking me to leave the site to you and your views alone. Well I actually have a degree in political science unlike theorists who spout claptrap on this site so I actually do know about useless forms of government that could never, ever work - Marxism being the foremost. It is so easy for people to sit in Ivory towers but when they have to live in the real world then they quickly change their tune unless of course they are multi millionaires like Millibansd and his cronies and they can call themselves Marxist or liberals or neo cons or whatever they like.
It seems the only response to my comments is to correct me on the title of the gentleman rather than put an opposing but sensible viewpoint or say where I was wrong. I actually have no time for the chap I was merely pointing out that a Labour party sponsor made his millions under the conditions made possible by Thatcher. So why put the blame on Thatcher's kids? A working class council house lad was able to start a business and once Thatcher was in he was then able to employ hundreds of people, pay lots of taxes, make a pile of money and all without any handouts or spouting political claptrap or stupid comments such as _well slavery was illegal -

As to going away from this site I did not realise the Evening Post was a private club only for clap trap theorists who can only spout one point of view and like the theologists who used to debate on the number of angels that could sit on the head a pin, or as as they satirised so cruelly, but accurately, on Monty Python they spout the minute differences between different forms of Marxist-communist theory until the cows come home. They are all the same - Control, Control, Control. No private enterprise and us proles must have no ambition other than to be a worker ant in a colony.

So having read Marxism fully and been examined for my degree I am fully aware of tactics in politics and have no intention of submitting to your childish requests as fortunately for me we live in a democracy not a one party Marxist state, so I do have the option of putting my views alongside the rubbish theory you talk about.”

“Tuesday, August 16 2011, 3:29PM
stumay - "You say I am wrong on so MANY counts well NAME THEM!"
I was referring to your post of Tuesday, August 16 2011, 10:26AM. Asking me to name them is odd, I'd usually use numbers, but as you wish.
"Whine - whine - whine and moan it is all someone else's fault. Typical leftie propoganda."
Geoffrey. There's nothing "leftie" about ****yzing a situation in order to understand and hopefully remedy it. Nor is such analysis "propaganda".
"This is nothing to do with Thatcher."
Simone. Course it has. She instigated the council hpouse sell off that undermined community stability and informed us there is no society just individuals. Inspriing rhetoric if you need to reason why it's a good idea to burn and loot local buildings.
"Under Thatcher's rules you look at rich successful people and say - Why has he got money and possessions - I know I will work hard and be like him."
Reginald. This one's a goldmine. Most wealth in inherited. And virtually all 'wealth creation' occurs at the detrement of others. Capitalism isn't built on 'winners' it's built on the backs and bodies of the losers. Might I suggest, someone looks at "rich succesful people" and says 'why should that person receive greater material rewards than the combined income of the entire nursing staff at the hosptial my father died in?'
"Under Milliband's theory of Marxism you say - Why has he got it and I haven't - I know I will take it off him. I won't work I will just take it. I don't care if Marxism and communism and the wonderful socialist world of trendy Guardian readers have completely and utterly failed I will just continue with my fantsay world of envy."
Penelope and Horatio. Again I'm unsure, and you've not been entirely helpful in illustrating this, which of Ralph Miliband's theories you're referring to. The closest national policies to those you describe as "wonderful socialist" would've been those deployed in the UK post WW2. Forgive my repeating an earlier post, but post WW2, despite a huge deficit, we were able to rebuild cities, build homes for millions of people, establish the NHS and the welfare state. Under this "wonderful socialist" system you describe, we had virtually full employment for decades, improved health, better education and a greater life for all. Under this "wonderful socialist" system you describe, things got better year in year out for decades. We all enjoyed steadily greater equality until the 1980s. There is, of course, the flipside and maybe you're mistaking "wonderful socialist" for Maoist and focusing on China. But aren't they doing rather well too, judging things by your own capitalist measures?
"Let these kids do what they want and blame someone who hasn't been in power for over 20 years rather than Blair and his socialist cronies who have been the latest in a long line of Labour governments who have completely ruined Britain."
Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. I'd imagine what kids want is equality of opportunity and a chance to carve a decent life for themselves and their families. Such crazy dreams as stable employment, a secure home, call me mad but maybe even a pension. There's nothing socialist about Blair. There's never been a "long line of Labour governments" and I can't imagine what you believe Britain was and how it was "ruined".
In your later post, you state; "Peter Stringfellow - another entrepeneuir who left school with no qualifications but actually realised hbis future was in his hands". I've never heard him describe it as his "future" before but it is probably fair to say he couldn't past his cock.”