Notts Police and Crime Commissioner Paddy Tipping wants 'a fair deal' for police funding

“So, just to sum up, Labour borrowed too much money, except for the periods when they didn't; the Conservatives are more frugal with their spending, except when they aren't; and who comes out on top depends in large part on World events that neither party has any control over, and who happens to be in charge when the music stops.”

“What kind of projects did Labour fund using PFI that the Conservatives didn't, smshogun?”

“Neo, an interesting point, but I would point out that many of today's senior politicians are career politicians, so have been raised in a system.

From a personal perspective I would like to see all politicians and most public servants having some form of appropriate training, but this would do away with the masses of support staff who advise and are qualified, so a slightly double edged sword.”

“Formerly, there are some cases, but it is this which is the contentious area, remember these contracts were negotiated at a specific time and we have the advantage of looking back with hindsight. Of many highlighted over many years it has become apparent that those negotiated under the Conservatives were much better as thay had a system which they adhered to and they severely restricted the type of project undertaken by PFI funding. Under Labour they just ignored the guidelines and utilised them for almost anything and the contracts were poorly negotiated.

Ultimately we still have to pay for them irrespective of who negotiated them and how good or bad they are.”

“Someone has posted that we elect amateurs to highly responsible jobs and expect them to be competent. They've mentioned Gordon Brown. I understand that virtually every, if not all, Chancellors Of The Exchequer have at least been economists, for instance, so have some level of competence. Unlike Michael Gove who I believe is the first Justice Minister to not be qualified in law.
If we are to accept the earlier postser's proposition, ought we not to vastly increase the salaries of politicians who hold such highly-responsible positions in order to attract the most able 'doers', as the earlier poster put it? Because the current salaries will not. What do readers think?”

“I agree with the view that PFI is a bad idea.

Unless I am mistaken PFI is being used as a large part of the funding for the tram, which I think the city will live to regret for many years to come.”

“"Actually, I have voted Conservative more often than Labour, and I read the Telegraph and can't stand the Guardian. Just goes to show that simplistically pigeonholing those you disagree with doesn't really work very well."

And I have voted Labour in the past and I read both the Guardian and Telegraph. So where does that get us? Oh yes, I remember. I'm simplistic (along with most other readers here) and you're intellectually sophisticated.

Ted - I agree that the bailout was necessary but take one step back and ask, why was it necessary? If we just accept that the people we elect are all amateurs and that incompetence is inevitable why should we bother to vote at all?”

“Not sure there are any circumstances in which PFI is a good idea, smshogun. The theory is presumably that the extra layer of cost you introduce by the company needing to show a profit is supposed to be more than offset by the efficiencies of having a commercial provider rather than a state-funded one, but I have yet to see a convincing case that it works.”

“"As for prejudices, it is very clear that you lean in favour of Labour but pretend, unconvincingly, to be neutral." --- Weatherman

Actually, I have voted Conservative more often than Labour, and I read the Telegraph and can't stand the Guardian. Just goes to show that simplistically pigeonholing those you disagree with doesn't really work very well.”

“I would generally agree with Formerly on this one, both parties are guilty of the same spending and getting us into debt, just as thay are equally guilty of having a surplus.
When another party comes to power, it inherits the previous parties policies and finances and these take time to change, many cannot be changed, and those which can be changed often need two or more terms in office to successfully implement the majority of them.

Where Labour came unstuck was their poor implementation of the PFI system which came in under John Major, but was developed under Margaret Thatcher, and Labour used most of these for unsuitable projects as other funding methods were more appropriate for them. Here lies the dilema, was the economic case sound for the jobs they created, or was the PFI system used inappropriately with its long term repayment and excessive interest payments.”