Hopes and fears as age of high-speed trains draws closer

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Wednesday, January 11, 2012
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Nottingham Post

The green light has been given to a £32 billion high-speed rail network which will see 250mph trains bringing passengers to and from the East Midlands. Parliamentary Correspondent Joseph Watts reports

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NOTTS businesses have welcomed news that a £32 billion high-speed rail network has been given the go ahead.

But many residents are worried the plan, known as HS2, could cause massive disruption and blight their homes.

Meanwhile opposition groups claim the Government had overstated the economic and environmental benefits of the scheme.

Transport Secretary Justine Greening, who gave the green light yesterday, said: "A new high-speed rail network will provide Britain with the additional train seats, connections and speed to stay ahead of the congestion challenge and help create jobs, growth and prosperity for the entire country.

"HS2 will link some of our greatest cities – and high speed trains will connect with our existing railway lines to provide seamless journeys to destinations far beyond it."

Under the Government's scheme a Y-shaped network will be built – running first from London to Birmingham before splitting, with one branch going north-west to Manchester and another going through the East Midlands to Leeds.

The line from London to Birmingham, phase one, is expected to open in 2026 followed by the leg through the East Midlands, phase two, by 2033.

It is known that transport officials will consider the idea of letting high-speed trains roll off their network and onto conventional track, allowing them to travel at lower speed directly into Nottingham city centre.

Yesterday approval was given to a detailed route for phase one and the principle of a Y-shaped network.

But confirmed details of the proposed line and services through the East Midlands, including where stops will be, will not be released until they are consulted on in early 2014, with a final plan chosen by the end of that year.

Ministers say the network will generate benefits of up to £47 billion plus fare revenues of some £34 billion over 60 years.

They also argue it will create construction jobs – something welcomed by trade unions – further boosting growth.

Meanwhile they point out the scheme is carbon neutral and explain it will pull nine million journeys a year off the roads and 4.5million from flights and on to the greener network, and they say the new line will cut 45 minutes off the journey from the East Midlands to London.

George Cowcher, chief executive of the Derbyshire and Notts Chamber of Commerce, said: "Given that a proposed East Midlands spur could deliver economic benefits of around £3.8 billion, it's vital the Government gives a firm commitment to rolling out the second phase of the scheme.

"Linking us to London and the wider European network will bring real benefits, boosting our ability to recruit staff, move goods and services, and access wider opportunities to do business."

But opposition is just as strong – with the Countryside Alliance saying that no significant evaluation of the scheme's impact on rural communities and wildlife had been done.

Chair of the Stop HS2 campaign Penny Gaines said people in Nottingham needed to start questioning the project now before a detailed regional route was announced.

"People should start appraising the financial and business case for HS2 now," she said.

"If they wait until a detailed route is announced in 2014 then, like people that did the same with phase one, they will be written off as nimbies.

"The time to start writing to your MP and to Justine Greening is now."

She highlighted that earlier HS2 documentation suggested six million journeys would be taken from aeroplanes, not the 4.5 million now claimed – raising questions over any environmental assessment.

The Taxpayers' Alliance attacked the economic case for HS2, saying every British family would have to pay £1,000 for the scheme but few would benefit.

Director Matthew Sinclair argued the cost would end up being higher than predicted and would push other rail fares up.

Broxtowe Borough Councillor Steve Barber explains why he is supporting the scheme

IT'S all about capacity: A new rail link is needed to London and the continent if we are to be part of the post-recession economic revival.

The present routes are congested and slow, the M1 and M6 offer unreliable journey times and air travel over short distances is unsustainable.

A network of high-speed lines now link cities such as Barcelona, Cologne, Paris, Berlin and London.

More and more European cities are joining the club and this will be where future industry will invest.

Without it we shall be left out in the cold.

The existing Midland main line to London was built in Victorian times to shift vast volumes of coal. It is very twisty, narrow and now simply not fit for purpose.

It does need improvement and electrification to satisfy local needs, but for the longer inter-city and international traffic a new route is needed.

By taking this longer distance traffic off the existing slower network, we can have more local trains which will be less crowded.

The high-speed line will be fully integrated. If the station is not in the middle of Nottingham it must be close by and served by our local trains, trams and buses. Broxtowe Borough Council unanimously asked for this to be "within and or adjacent to Broxtowe".

True, HS2 will cost a lot of money.

That money will be spent in local economies, providing jobs and prosperity. It is not money which has to be found in one go; but over a long period, as each phase opens the benefits will start to come in.

Even the bean-counters admit that there will be more benefit in the long run than cost; it is an investment and a very sound one.

Over 22 miles of the route south of Birmingham will be underground. Ask yourself how much of the parallel M42 was put underground for environmental reasons?

A high-speed rail line uses half the land of a six-lane motorway and carries over twice the passengers.

If we don't have HS2 then we shall probably need at least two extra motorways into London.

Councillor Neil Clarke, leader of Rushcliffe Borough Council has reservations about the scheme

THE Government's decision to fund new infrastructure by means of the HS2, the new high-speed rail line, is to be welcomed – but the timing is not right.

I believe that there are greater priorities which need addressing as the current financial constraints will continue for some time to come.

£32 billion is a monumental amount of money, but will that be the final cost?

Rushcliffe Borough Council passed a motion last July calling for the investment to be delayed and concentration given to other existing infrastructure.

The existing rail network is badly in need of upgrading.

Delays often occur as a result of technical failure, for example signals. Much still needs to be done to increase reliability on the East Coast and Midland mainlines, which is also suffering from the lack of Electrification.

Rather than building a completely new line elsewhere, the Midland Mainline could benefit by investment in "straightening" it, which would cut journey times.

While it is great to see that investment in the A453 is now going to take place, there are still other road schemes badly in need of investment.

In addition to transport infrastructure the rural parts of this country are being left behind with regard to Broadband communication. The Government is allocating limited funds, but it needs many billions, not hundreds of millions, spending to ensure that businesses can develop and compete.

I believe this will provide a more proven economic benefit and one which is obligatory if we are to catch up with some other countries.

I make a comparison with the Olympics.

Most sport investment has been diverted into the Olympics to the detriment of local facilities, for example, the National Water Sports Centre at Holme Pierrepont.

My worry is the same thing will happen with rail.

As the cost of HS2 escalates, funds will be diverted from the existing lines.

In this day and age of lap-tops and iPhones and iPads, will UK journey times still be so important in this already congested country, and I fear the ticket prices will render HS2 prohibitive for the majority of travellers.

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21 Comments

  • Profile image for MarkXBSSensor

    by MarkXBSSensor

    Friday, January 20 2012, 2:38PM

    “by smshogun Friday, January 13 2012, 6:07PM

    "Prediminantly its the business aspects based over a prescribed period of time, business time costs money and this can be assessed accurately for most positions and is called a static cost, the static costs are normally averaged out over the types of users who are anticipated to use the train. This then gives an average figure to work with....."

    "In simple terms it costs £100 per hour of business time for a senior manager, irrespective of his or her job or specific task, if they travel to London once a week and have a 2 hour meeting, and we allow 11 minutes to travel from the station to there meeting we can say four hours. This is half a working day, or a £400 cost to the company.......

    "One cost is deducted from the other and the cost savings are multiplied by the amount of projected travellers over the projected period of time period or service life of the system."

    "Hope this helps."


    Nope.

    Because the train fans argue one of the benefits of going by train is you can work on it.

    But if it's too quick it's hardly worth unpacking your laptop and powering it up.

    You can't have your cake and eat it.

    And eat it.

    And eat it.

    And eat it.......”

  • Profile image for smshogun

    by smshogun

    Friday, January 13 2012, 6:07PM

    “Mr B, i can explain the principles used, but not give an exact figure as nobody knows the formula they used for this case.

    Prediminantly its the business aspects based over a prescribed period of time, business time costs money and this can be assessed accurately for most positions and is called a static cost, the static costs are normally averaged out over the types of users who are anticipated to use the train. This then gives an average figure to work with.

    In simple terms it costs £100 per hour of business time for a senior manager, irrespective of his or her job or specific task, if they travel to London once a week and have a 2 hour meeting, and we allow 11 minutes to travel from the station to there meeting we can say four hours. This is half a working day, or a £400 cost to the company.

    If they travel by car and it takes them 2.5 hours travelling each way we now have 5 hours plus the two hours meeting time whiuch gives us 7 hours, or a full working day, and a cost of £700 to attend the same meeting.

    One cost is deducted from the other and the cost savings are multiplied by the amount of projected travellers over the projected period of time period or service life of the system.

    Hope this helps.”

  • Profile image for bosephus

    by bosephus

    Friday, January 13 2012, 10:22AM

    “Soundmandave. The problem on the west coast rail corridor is one of sheer volume. Extra rolling stock is not the answer. The problem is, you can build all the rolling stiock you want, but you stilll need a railway to run it on.

    The current West Coast route is virtualy full to capacity, and demand is still increasing. It is new railway routes that are needed for the extra stock to run on.

    And then there is freight traffic, which most opponents of HS2 simply ignore. There is a lot of freight waiting to transfer to rail, but there is simply no capacity to take it on busy routes.

    HS2 will free up that space on exisiting routes.

    When the roads were getting full in the 1960s as traffic increased, we did the sensible thing and started building motorways, linking major centres of population, not tinkering around widening exisiting roads.

    The same principle is now being applied to the rail network”

  • Profile image for PeterBaylis

    by PeterBaylis

    Friday, January 13 2012, 4:38AM

    “I'm going by train to Kent this weekend. Two and a half hours journey for £50 return. Not bad at all. If its not broke, don't try to fix it.”

  • Profile image for soundmandave

    by soundmandave

    Friday, January 13 2012, 2:59AM

    “So David Cameron has won the competition - his new train-set is bigger and faster than JCs.

    You would think that a few hundred million spent on extra rolling stock for the existing network would be a good idea in the meantime. A few hundred thousand or so commuters might be stood in the aisles cheering rather than because there are no seats.”

  • Profile image for MR_B_NOTTM

    by MR_B_NOTTM

    Thursday, January 12 2012, 9:33PM

    “so by not answering any of my questions am i right in assuming that you now agree that this would be a complete waste of money mr sensible ?”

  • Profile image for qzectbum

    by qzectbum

    Wednesday, January 11 2012, 9:56PM

    “bosephus, I don't KNOW it will go over budget, just as you don't know it will be completed on or under budget. There have been an awful lot of assumptions made, which it could be argued are somewhat optimistic. Indeed, Justine Greening has stated the exact route has still to be determined, and let's face it, tunnelling isn't a cheap engineering exercise.

    My assumptions about it running over budget are based the Dutch equivalent, where those involved in the construction have had to go cap in hand to borrow an extra 250 million to continue.

    I trust you're not labelling me a NIMBY btw?”

  • Profile image for MR_B_NOTTM

    by MR_B_NOTTM

    Wednesday, January 11 2012, 9:52PM

    “oh and i forgot. you say it will reduce the travel time to 49 mins. if i was that bothered i would leave an hour/ hour and a half earlier.doh !”

  • Profile image for MR_B_NOTTM

    by MR_B_NOTTM

    Wednesday, January 11 2012, 9:47PM

    “and another thing, if four passengers and myself wanted to travel from nottingham to london in my 3.5 ltr petrol/hybrid car it would use approx. 6-7 ltrs of fuel for a return trip. lets call it £50. being a hybrid car it is congestion free and i have a friend with a office with free parking, but if i didn't and i had to pay lets say £30 for parking, that means a total fee of £80 for five of us to travel to london on a return trip. could you tell me how much it costs for one person for a return trip at present? then double it and thats what it will cost for a trip on the hs2. so where is the value/ benefits ?”

  • Profile image for MR_B_NOTTM

    by MR_B_NOTTM

    Wednesday, January 11 2012, 9:09PM

    “and mr sensible could you please answer the other questions in my previous post. what you can't. you and most in favour i would guess.”

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